In this episode of the Napo Podcast, General Secretary, Ian Lawrence, and National Chair, Ben Cockburn, get straight to the heart of the pay dispute. They reveal that negotiations have hit a wall, and now it’s down to us, as a union, to force the change.
Months of talks, countless arguments made, ministers brought into the room and still no pay offer on the table. The money, we’re told, has run out. The process is exhausted. And we’re now calling on political will, which so far has been missing in action.
But what hasn’t run out is our resolve.
This episode lays out how far Napo negotiators have gone including hammering home the facts, staying united across unions, and confronting the employer with the undeniable truth that probation is propping up the justice system. Staff are leaving in droves. And members have had enough. The system has relied for too long on goodwill, and that goodwill is gone.
Despite all of that we are not powerless. As a union, our collective strength is the one thing we still control and it’s time to use it. As one member put it: “We’ll only get what we’re prepared to fight for.” And they’re right.
If the employer won’t listen, and the government won’t act, it’s up to us to shift the balance. This is no longer just about pay. It’s about dignity, value, and the future of the profession.
Listen now, and share widely.






